Nerflings Mailing List

Update (2025-07-16): That seems not to be true anymore. Since moving the wireless router upstairs on 2025-07-04(Fri) it works better.

Update (2025-08-24): Maybe it is true. Yesterday it lost connection many times. Today it is not as bad, but still flakey.

What's up with the mailing list?

The nerflings.org mailing list (mechanics)

Scroll down to end for recent news or up for more context.

I tested the list by sending a message From: webmaster to the list on July 17 at 23:20, it went through immediately to all but gmail.com, which delayed it overnight. It was still in the queue the next morning. In the mean time someone replied to it. That message went through to all addresses, including gmail, in less that 20 minutes, while my message was still waiting. It seems pretty random.
My message was finally accepted by gmail.com on July 18 at 17:17 shortly after requeueing it for the fourth time, after a delay of more than 17 hours.
(2024-07-29) K.@gmail.com sent email to the nerflings.org mailing list at Jul 28 18:48EDT. The next day V.@gmail.com sent mail at Jul 29 08:30EDT. Both of these were accepted immediately by all except gmail.com, which deferred (delayed) them with the response: "Gmail has detected this message exceeded its quota for sending " later with a different response: "Gmail requires all bulk email senders to use TLS/SSL for SMTP". Sometimes the response says DKIM rather than TLS/SSL.
K.@gmail.com sent another message at Jul 29 09:04EDT which was again accepted by all but gmail.com. At Jul 29 18:52:38 (10 hours later) it was accepted by gmail.com while the two previously sent messages continue to be delayed by gmail.com and to remain in the queue.
G.@aim.com sent a message at Jul 29 14:21, which was delivered to all, including gmail.com by Jul 29 14:28, seven minutes later, while all the other messages contiued to be delayed.
(2024-07-30) At 08:30 I deleted the two messages from (K. and V.) that were still in the queue, one for 24 hours, the other 38.
Both K. and V. sent from gmail.com, while G. sent from aim.com. Can it be that gmail.com wants gmail users to use only gmail? But K's second message went through eventually.
(2024-07-31) V. sent another email to the list at 15:42. As I write this at 17:22EDT it has been accepted by all but gmail.com, which has defered it five times. Requeued 23:08. At 23:47 it was accepted by gmail.com.
(2024-08-01) Two more messages came in the night, From: V.@gmail.com at 01:28 and From: M.@gmail.com at 4:35. As of 12:07 they are both stuck on gmail.com only. Both deferred with "Gmail detected exceeded quota". At 12:52 the response changed to "Gmail requires TLS/SSL for SMTP".
At 13:44:16 E.@yahoo.com sent a third message which was also deferred by gmail.com.
At 14:06 D. sent a message (not from gmail), which was fully delivered by 14:13 while the three previous messages are still not accepted by gmail.com.
At 15:37 B.@hotmail.com sent a message which also was delivered to all except gmail.com.
At 17:10 I requeued all four of the messages in the queue. At 17:32 E.@yahoo.com was sent and removed from the queue, (after almost 4hr. and one requeue.) At 17:52 B.@hotmail.com was sent and removed from the queue, (after over 2hr. and one requeue.)
Messages from yahoo, hotmail, and a *.edu domain have come and gone while the two messages from gmail.com are delayed by gmail.com. about 18hr so far. Two more come from gmail.com.
(2024-08-02) At 10:30 there are the same four messages in in the queue, all sent from gmail.com deferred by gmail.com. It's not working. I plan to shut it down after sending a fairwell. Four messages from gmail users will never be seen by gmail users. Will my fairwell message go through?
At 2024-08-02 T 11:50 postmaster@nerflings.org sent Mailing list shutdown. To my surprise, it looks like it went through easily to all.
(2024-08-13 22:42) postmaster@nerflings.org sent a message. It is delivered immediately to all but gmail.
Next day it is still in the queue waiting for gmail.com. I re-queue it several times. At 2024-08-14 20:40 gmail.com finally accepted the message after a delay of nearly 22 hours.
(2024-08-25) L.@gmail.com sent one at 10:45. It went immediately to all but gmail, which delayed it several times, but accepted it, clearing the queue, at 11:40.
(2024-08-28) L.@gmail.com sent another one at 20:51. Again, it went immediately to all but gmail.
Next day it is still waiting for gmail.com. At 8:34 I re-queue it; at 8:41 gmail accepts it and the queue is empty.
(2024-09-05) KJ.@gmail.com posted two messages within two minutes. Both sent immediately to all but gmail.com and a couple of others, who accepted on second or third try. I deleted the second, it was a reply to self (KJ) talking to someone else, from another mailing list? First message still in queue 30 min later. At 23:00 requeue it. By amazing coincidence, KJ. sent another message at almost exactly the same time. Now there are two in the queue waiting for gmail.com, all others having been delivered. They both say the same thing. I am deleting the old one.
(2024-09-06) At 12:00 the message is still not accepted by gmail.com. It's obsolete anyway. I'm deleting it.
(2024-10-08) At 13:38 postmaster@nerflings.org sent a message to the list. On the first try both yahoo.com and gmail.com deferred it. At 13:46 gmail.com accepted it, after only 8min delay. At 16:06 it was accepted by yahoo.com, after 2½hrs. The queue is empty.
(2024-10-08) At 18:50 L.@gmail.com sent one, which was accepted immediately by all but gmail. At 10:00 the next day it is still in the queue waiting for gmail.com.
(2024-10-09 T 11:15EDT) Requeue message from yesterday. At 12:40 L.@gmail.com sent another message, and at 15:27 D.@yahoo.com replied to it. At 21:40 all three are still waiting for only gmail.com, having been accepted for delivery by all other mail servers.
(22:30EDT) I delete the three messages still not delivered by gmail.com, and pack them into one which is sent From: postmaster@nerflings.org.
(2024-10-10 T 00:07EDT) The message from postmaster was accepted by gmail.com. The queue is empty.
(2024-10-10) At 7:14 L.@gmail.com sent another one, which was delayed by gmail.com. A couple of others sent content free replies to previous messages. I deleted those after they were delivered to all but gmail.com, didn't bother to re-send. At 11:02 I requeued L.@gmail.com and at 11:03 it was accepted by gmail.com. The queue is empty.
(2024-10-10) But not for long. At 17:54 L.@gmail.com sent yet another, which was again accepted by all but gmail.com. At 22:12 requeue it.
(2024-10-11) It's still waiting next morning. Requeue a little after noon, and again at 18:10. At 29:12 K.@yahoo.com replied with a message that was completely delivered by 19:22, after a delay of less than 10min. The L.@gmail.com is still in the queue. Since the K.@yahoo.com message quoted it in full in the reply, everyone has seen it, either the original or in quotes, there does not seems to be any reason to keep trying, at 20:20 I delete it. The queue is empty.
(2024-11-10) At 20:44 webmaster@nerflings.org sent a message to the iist, which was accepted immediately by all but gmail.com and yahoo.com. They both delayed it. At 21:00 gmail.com accepted it, but yahoo.com continues to delay. At 23:10 yahoo.com accepted it, and the queue is empty with no special action by Postmaster.
(2024-11-19) At 19:07 EA.@gmail.com sent a message to the iist, which again was accepted immediately by all but gmail.com and yahoo.com. At 23:07 yahoo.com accepted it.
(2024-11-20) It's still waiting next morning. At 17:36 I re-queue it; at 17:37 gmail.com delays it again. At 19:34 I do it again. It continues to be delayed; sometimes it says a quota has been exceeded, sometimes it says TLS must be used. At 22:06 requeue yet again.
(2024-11-21) It's still there.
(2024-11-22) It's still there. Usually I get annoyed and do something if a message is in the queue for more than 24hr, but I was busy yesterday. At 12:12 gmail.com delayed it again. I will delete it and quote it in a message from webmaster. The similar message on 2024-11-10 went through. This is an experiment; I don't want to do it every time.
That was weird. I (webmaster) sent the message at 13:04. It was accepted immediately by all but gmail.com, but even gmail.com did accept two addresses for delivery, but delayed all others. At 13:12 all the others were accepted and the queue is empty.
(2024-12-12) At 20:13 L.@gmail.com sent a message which shortly accepted by all but gmail. Two others replied, one of which was TS@yahoo.com at 23:27, the other JW@tm.com at 23:35. Those also were shortly accepted by all but gmail,com.
(2024-12-13) Next morning all three are still in the queue, but at 10:05 the message from TS@yahoo.com was accepted by gmail.com. So everybody with a valid address on the list has gotten a copy. At 12:45 I delete the other two messages on the queue. I will verify information, put it on the web page, and send as webmaster@nerflings.org to say it is there.

(2024-12-19) At 9:30 BK@valinet.com sent a message which was immediately accepted by all except gmail.com which bounced (not delayed) it. I think this is the first time that mail was bounced. A bounce message was sent back to BK@valinet.com and the queue is empty, but the mail was not delivered to gmail.com.

       <example@gmail.com> (expanded from <maillist@nerflings.org>):
       host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[142.251.163.27] said:
       550-5.7.26 Your email has been blocked because the sender is unauthenticated.
       550-5.7.26 Gmail requires all senders to authenticate with either SPF or DKIM.
       550-5.7.26
       550-5.7.26  Authentication results:
       550-5.7.26  DKIM = did not pass              
       550-5.7.26  SPF [valinet.com] with ip: [209.222.4.146] = did not pass
       550-5.7.26
       550-5.7.26  For instructions on setting up authentication, go to
       550 5.7.26  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication
          af79cd13be357-7b9ac550545si160621085a.679 -
          gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command)

Is it relevant that http://valinet.com/ says there are major changes in the works, incuding new mail servers?

(2025-01-25) At 18:53 L.@gmail.com sent a message which was immediately accepted by all but yahoo.com and gmail.com. At 22:30 it was accepted by yahoo.com, leaving 50 copies still in the queue waiting for gmail.com. At 23:44 I re-queued it and at 23:51 gmail.com accepted it. The queue is empty.

The nerflings.org mailing list 2025 (mechanics)

It's been a quiet over the winter.

(2025-05-02) At 11:23 VT.@gmail.com send a message which was accepted by all but gmail.com. At 16:30 there are still 50 copies in the queue waiting for gmail.com. At 17:40 re-queue. At 21:20 I re-queue again.
(2025-05-03) At 11:30 it's still there. It has been 24 hours. I should do something, but I'm busy today. I re-queue it, but just leave it there.
(2025-05-04) In the morning it's still there. I plan to cancel it. but re-queue it because no coffee yet. It goes through immediately. At 9:56 the queue is empty.
(2025-05-04) At 18:10 KJK@gmail.com sent a message which was accepted within minutes by all but gmail.com. At 20:50 and 23:27 re-queue. At 23:33 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty.
(2025-05-17) At 11:19 VT.@gmail.com sent a message which was accepted by all but gmail.com. At 15:29, 16:29, and 19:28, three more, not from gmail.com addresses, are sent and accepted by all but gmail.com.
(2025-05-18) In the morning all four are still waiting for gmail.com. I cancel all four and at 11:14 send a single message from webmaster@nerflings.org which quotes all four. I hope it will be easier to get that one message through than all four. Requeued it at 11:41 and 15:14.
(2025-05-19) It's still waiting. Requeue at 8:58, 18:47, and 21:55. At 18:00 DW@yahoo.com sent a message, again accepted by all but gmail.com.
(2025-05-20) Both messages are still waiting. Requeue webmaster at 10:11, 13:13, and 15:05. Requeue seems not to help. At 21:06 requeue DW@yahoo.com; at 21:45 gmail.com accepts it. At 22:05 requeue webmaster@nerflings.org. At 22:20 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty.
(2025-05-21) At 18:39 webmaster sends a message to the list with a CC: to BD@gmail.com. The CC: makes no difference. All except gmail.com accept the msg; gmail.com delays.
While I was writing this, gmail.com accepted it on the second try at 18:45 (6min) Did somebody fix something? Not me.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is no more reliable than magic."
(2025-05-22) At 15:27 webmaster sends a message. It is accepted immediately by all but gmail.com. At 21:09 it's still waiting, requeue.
(2025-05-23) At 10:09 gmail.com accepts it. The queue is empty (19hrs).
At 20:36 K@yahoo.com sends a message.
(2025-05-24) At 9:47 requeue. At 9:56 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty (13hrs).
(2025-05-30) At 18:07 TF@yahoo.com sends a message which goes to all on the first try (immediate even to gmail.com). At 18:09 webmaster replies with a post which goes to all but gmail.com. At 20:38 requeue.
(2025-05-31) At 12:31 requeue.
(2025-06-01) At 13:31 requeue; again at 21:41.
(2025-06-02) At 9:11 requeue.
At 9:27 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty after 63 hours.
(2025-06-08) At 11:30 KJK@gmail.com sends a message which is accepted by all but gmail.com. At 12:47 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty (1hr).
(2025-06-18) At 16:50 LW@gmail.com sends a message. At 16:53 BLZ@hotmail.com replies to list. At 17:04 it is sent to all, while the LW message still waits for gmail.com. At 17:36 LW replies to reply. Since this message quotes all previous, I delete the previous one.
(2025-06-19) It's still there. At 10:37 and 16:35 requeue.
(2025-06-20) Still there. At 11:50 LW sends yet another which is accepted by all but gmail.com. There are now two in the queue. At 13:09 gmail.com accepts the most recent (11:50) message. The old one is still waiting. At 22:16 DY@gmail.com sends another, which again is accepted by all but gmail.com. At 22:32 LW@gmail.com sends another. There are now three waiting for gmail.com.
(2025-06-21) All three are still there. At 9:40 DY@gmail.com sends yet another. There are now four messages from two people delivered to all but gmail.com. At 10.47 I delete all of them. There are copies of all of them on the main web page (http://www.nerflings.org)
(2025-07-10) At 16:09 LW@gmail.com sends a message, accepted by all but gmail.com. At 20:21 DBC replies to it, accepted by all but gmail.com. At 22:10 LW replies. At 22:33 I delete the first two, which are outdated and in any case quoted by the third.
(2025-07-11) Still there. At 23:33 I delete it.
(2025-07-23) At 10:11 VT.@gmail.com sends a message which is accepted by all but gmail.com.
(2025-07-24) Next day it's still waiting for gmail.com. Two people reply to it and then there are three messages waiting for gmail.com. At 15:35 postmaster sends a message explaining the situation, quoting all three, and deletes them from the queue. Both yahoo.com and gmail.com delay the postmaster message. At 15:43 gmail.com accepts it while yahoo.com continues to delay. At 21:48 requeue. At 22:23 yahoo.com accepts the message and the queue is empty.
(2025-07-29) At 8:35 VT.@gmail.com sends a message. At 9:43 DBC replies to it. Both are accepted by all but gmail.com. At 15:39 DBC sends another quoting all previous. At 17:35 I delete the first two, keeping the last in the queue.
(2025-07-30) It's still there next day. I actually read the message and find it to be a mistake and correction. If you never saw the mistake, it's not urgent to see the correction. I put the correct part on the nerflings.org main page, and deleted the message from the mail queue at 12:53.
(2025-08-07) At 15:47 no@yahoo.com sent one. At 16:21 sm@hotmail.com replied. At 18:18 both are in the queue for gmail.com only. At 21:43 mailing list temporary shutdown.
(2025-08-11) At 9:40 restart.
(2025-08-18) At 22:00 webmaster sends a message to the list. It is accepted by all but gmail.com, which delays 50 copies and accepts exactly two.
(2025-08-19) At 11:45 it is still there; requeue. At 11:47 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty.
(2025-09-12) At 23:00 webmaster sends a message to the list. It was accepted at once by all but gmail.com, except for two bounces.
One of the two bounces was unremarkable. It said the message could not be delivered to a certain address. The other was bizzare. It came from postmaster@outlook.com and says that the mailing list address has a full mailbox, which is ridiculous. That is followed by a page of hexadecimal numbers and then several Received: headers that show the message was forwarded through SMTP servers with names all ending in "outlook.com". It nowhere says to which address it could not be delivered. It seems outlook.com accepted the message, but then hit a bug and failed to deliver it, even forgetting where it was supposed to go.
(2025-09-13) In the morning the webmaster's message is still in the queue waiting for gmail.com to accept it. At 10:23, just a minute after a failed delivery attempt, I re-queue it. At 10:31 gmail.com accepts it and the queue is empty.
(2025-09-19) At 16:35 DBC sends a message to the list. All except gmail.com accept it; gmail.com delays until 16:42 and then accepts it. The queue is empty until 18:11 when LW@gmail.com sends a reply. It is accepted by all but gmail.com, which delays it until 18:37 when it is accepted and the queue is empty. That was easy. Is it all fixed now?
(2025-09-20) At 18:48 KJK@gmail.com sends reply to yesterday's message which is accepted by all but gmail.com. At 21:20, re-queue just after failed attempt.
(2025-09-21) It's still there in the morning. I guess it was just luck; nobody fixed anything. At 10:22 re-queue. At 18:07 gmail.com definitively bounced (not deferred) the message and a non-delivery notice was returned to KJK@gmail.com complaining that the sender was not authenticated. At 19:07 rbtk@yahoo.com sent a message which was accepted by all except gmail.com which delayed it until 19:32 and then accepted it. The queue is empty.
(2025-09-22) At 14:35 DBC sends one. I forgot to track it, but about midnight DBC gets a bizzare bounce from outlook.com, similar to the one webmaster got 2025-09-12.
(2025-09-23) At 14:54 ms@gmail.com sends one. All others accept but gmail.com delays it until… At 20:04 requeue…
At 22:32 gmail.com bounced it and a non-delivery notification was sent to ms@gmail.com.
(2025-09-24) At 22:26 LW@gmail.com sends one. All others accept but gmail.com delays it until at 22:42 bounces it. A non-delivery notification is sent to LW@gmail.com.

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The nerflings.org mailing list (mechanics)

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